War crimes

[sobrique]

If a national power were to invade England.
Depose Tony Blair and the Cabinet.
Imprison and start torturing our citizens.

Then I think I'd be doing my damnedest to find myself a rifle. Hell, any sort of gun or explosive.

And I'd be firing it at the attackers.

I was horrified to hear about the US 'interrogation' of iraqi prisoners (BBC Link).

The people shooting at the US army have changed in my opinion. They're now not terrorists. They're freedom fighters.

The quote that really wound me up this morning, on Radio 4 (by some politico)

"You can't compare the treatment of these prisoners with the atrocities commited by Saddam Hussein".

Actually, surely the WHOLE FUCKING POINT is that you CAN.

I agree that the numbers are less. But morality isn't measured in terms of numbers. It's measured in your ability to commit an atrocity. I don't give a fuck if you tortured 1 person, or a thousand people. You're still a monster. And you should still be up in front of a war crimes tribunal. If not just tried as a 'common criminal.'.

I also believe that we should be seeing George Bush up in front of the ICC. Because the bottom line it that it's _his_ responsibility. We're holding Saddam responsible for the actions of his army under his regime.

I see no reason to make an exception just because we happen to be on the same side.

Comments

[jorune.livejournal.com]

I'm not surprised at the activities of the US troops, they're under enormous pressures, stress and constant gunfire.

" Well, you see Willard... In this war, things get confused out there, power, ideals, the old morality, and practical military necessity. Out there with these natives it must be a temptation to be god. Because there's a conflict in every human heart between the rational and the irrational, between good and evil. The good does not always triumph. Sometimes the dark side overcomes what Lincoln called the better angels of our nature. Every man has got a breaking point. You and I have. Walter Kurtz has reached his. And very obviously, he has gone insane. "

Corman, Apocalpyse Now (The briefing sequence at the beginning of the film).

All that was said in the screenplay by John Milius and Francis Ford Coppola applies here, decent ordinary men from the US have been sent to make a country 'free'. Before it was Vietnam now it's Iraq. Their leaders and propagandists claim it will only get better yet every action they take seems to make it worse. Under the constant threat of violence, we can only wonder how much combat stress and fatigue all sides are experiencing. In the 300th and final issue of Cerebus, a US sergeant writes to the author Dave Sim. He mentions that his platoon has several dead, more wounded and a small number 'mentally invalided'.

"You can't compare the treatment of these prisoners with the atrocities commited by Saddam Hussein".

I suspect the point here is: Physical embarrasment versus Mass Graves. On a case by case basis this is right. If we consider the number of civilians killed in Iraq then it becomes less obvious but still tenable. This applies only if the future turns out well. How many civilians died in the Liberation of Europe? hundreds of thousands? Yet in the final analysis no one would say it was not worth it. This is the gamble the politicians are taking, that they will able to say that it was all worth it in the end.

"I also believe that we should be seeing George Bush up in front of the ICC"

The US has been against the ICC because they do not want to be subject to anyone else's power. I expect you would have got the same reaction from a British PM in 1904, we're tops and we don't have to answer to anyone else.

[jambon-gris.livejournal.com]

Im with Chris on some a lot of this. George Bush, Tony Blair, et al have done thing which if they had been oprdinary people would undoubtably be criminal, Murder, kidnap, robbery etc.. We all know they will never answer for their crimes.

The brutality in the gaols is another matter. As a general rule in war thoses not fit for front line duties end up as guards in POW camps. It seems to me there was a distinct lack of leadership. If your C-in-C says "Do that and i'll have your bollocks", and sounds like he means it, then the pointless nastness would stop. It seems no such thing happened. Under those circumstances, bad people will do whatever bad thing they can think off.
As opposed to roughing up guerrillas, well its easy to say its wrong from the comfort of our air conditioned offices. If your stuck out in Iraq, and people are trying to kill your buddies the veiw is a bit different. Knocking the poor bastards about to try to find out where their frends are hiding make well look like a perfectly reasoable thing to do. I muight well act that way if I was in Iraq. I put a very high value on the lives of my friends. That doesn't make it right, just a sad fact of life.