Rememberance day.

[sobrique]

Today is rememberance day.

On the radio this morning, I heard that some people were refusing to wear a red poppy, because it was a militaristic symbol.
Nothing could be further from the truth.

On this day, in 1918, at 11am, the guns stopped.

We remember those that fought and died. Not because of what they did. Not because the killed. But because they were faced with the greatest sacrifice of all. To fight. To kill. And to die. So that others might live their lives in peace and freedom.

We remember this, not to glorify war. We honour those that fell. And we remember so we might not repeat the mistakes of the past.

To remember that war always comes at too high a price.

Sometimes freedom is dearly bought.

Comments

[jambon-gris.livejournal.com]

If you wish to protest you wear a white poppy. I have even seen a few worn by veterans at the main service, but I expect you would be held under the counter terrorism laws.

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Yup. Personally, I'm happy to wear a red poppy - but if people aren't and choose to wear a white poppy instead, that's fine too.

They're still making a statement of remembrance for the dead, and that the price of war is too high. When it was introduced, back in 1933 when it was still "Armistice Day", I think there were real concerns about the red poppy's meaning.

It looks like the British Legion finally reached an arrangement about the white poppies this year, btw - in the past there have been some heated disputes and the legion has refused to accept the proceeds from white poppies.

[sobrique.livejournal.com]

Protesting what though?

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Needless wars - that wars happen at all or that that goverments sometimes treat them as something other than a very last resort. It covers that spectrum.

[paulw.livejournal.com]

Why does everything have to involve a protest?

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

Because people always disagree with each other.

[jorune.livejournal.com]

I think we can view this in a number of ways:
Imperial / Warriors:
We sacrificed a generation to win this war and we will do so again. Blood Red is our commitment and our determination is to win is greater than yours. We remember their sacrifice and will take their place if called. Though I may die the glory of the nation lives on.

Pacifist:
Whose victory is this when all the combatants are drowning in a sea of blood?
We honour the fallen and support those who are left behind, the families and the men whose lives are crippled by war.

Anti Imperial:
No more war, no more conflict, the terror of the trenches lead to a greater terror in WW2.

I suspect that the 'Warrior' opinion held sway in the British Legion for some time, particularly if the white poppy was a sign of conscientious objectors. The argument of 'Your freedom was bought with my friends blood' is highly emotionally charged, if the white poppy brigade were blatantly showing a lack of respect for the honoured dead then I can see why the BL avoided having anything to do with them.

[mrph.livejournal.com]

*nod* Pretty much.

My understanding is that the meaning of the poppy shifted a little in the first few years. Initially, the great war was the war to end all wars and the poppy symbolised that and the sacrifice of all those who'd died in it.

By 1933, I think memories had faded a little. It was becoming clear that war wasn't vanishing just yet and the poppy was becoming, to some, a symbol of pride in the military, as opposed to a reminder of just how wretched the first world war was and how callous the military over-the-top "throw more men at the machine guns, a few of them might just live" approach was. It remembered the dead because they mattered, even if the generals seemed to think otherwise.

Of course, the meaning then shifted/broadened again, after WWII...

My grandfather fought in both wars. I don't think he ever shared his views on poppies, or on the wars, but if he was happy to wear a red poppy that's gooed enough for me.

[sobrique.livejournal.com]

Pride in one's military is one thing, but for me, not the purpose of 'rememberance day'. My grandfather was in the second, spent most of it as a POW in Japan. Having read his autobiography, I remain ... almost amazed. The guy I knew as the kindly old man who gave me sweeties once in a while became ... well someone who'd spend several years in the closest approximation of hell I can imagine.

And he still likes rice :)

[cthulahoops.livejournal.com]

Cool. If I'd known about white poppies in time I might have ordered one. Their website contains a lot of good material.

[crashbarrier.livejournal.com]

today is also my dad's birthday...

Why I won't wear a poppy.

[cthulahoops.livejournal.com]

There's lots of reasons, and I'll try to give a quick run through.

If I'm honest the main is reason is culture. When I saw poppies on television as a child I always assumed they were a symbol of one of the political parties. It was only really when I came to England and found myself surrounded by them that I learnt their meaning.

World War I was not a battle for freedom, it was a battle for supremacy between the European powers. It was not in the interest of the millions of people who fought in it or those who died in it. It was an imperialist war, and any remembrance of it that considers it a victory is worrying. There were no winners, only losers.

As proof that this was not about freedom: In 1916, in the middle of the war, the British sailed a ship up the Liffey and shelled and burned Dublin. They executed 16 men who had attempted to fight for freedom.

The poppy campaign does not say "Never Again", it is a remembrance divorced from a call for action. That is how a warmonger like Blair can wear one.

Futhermore, the campaign provides material support for future wars. By ensuring that the public will voluntarily bear some of the financial burden of the war, it helps facilitate future imperialist wars such as that in Iraq.

So, in rough summary, there's some thoughts on the matter.

[cthulahoops.livejournal.com]

I feel that I should add that this isn't an intended as an attack on those that do wear it. It's just a personal choice on the matter. I understand that most people are looking at the horrors of war.

[mister-jack.livejournal.com]

I don't tend to buy or wear a poppy these days. This is largely unfair to the poppy campaign which has been around for so long, but I dislike the whole "wear your charity on your sleave" approach - ribbons, wristbands, the lot.

[purp1e-magic.livejournal.com]

I don't wear a poppy. I'm a pacifist at heart, and I think it's important to remember the war, have a personal moment of reflection and rememberance for those who died, a public moment of silence. I'm not too sure about 'honouring' those who fought, but I always try to understand why they thought it was necessary and forgive them for doing so. Not just British fighters or German ones, but all of them. I know intellectually, but there's nothing there that I can relate to or understand with my heart or soul.

I should add that although I don't wear the poppy, this is not out of protest, but out of personal feelings that I don't deserve to wear it. Since I haven't learnt to forgive the people who fought and killed and died, let alone value their efforts, I find the poppy unsymbolic of my mind and therefore I would be hypocritical to give outward display of solidarity. (I do sometimes buy one, but that's because it's pretty.)