Immigration

[sobrique]

Looks like Immigration is shaping up to be a big election issue.
Both the 'major' players are claiming that they're going to control, throttle back, and otherwise reduce immigration.

I don't see what they're on about. What's wrong with people coming to our country to live and work? Sure this is a *good* thing.

Oh yes, there's the argument about not enough infrastructure to support immigrants. But really, how do you think those things are paid for? Tax on the workforce, ergo if they become a working member of society, they pay taxes etc.

The other argument, is of course 'they're taking our jobs'. Which is frankly, utter rubbish - jobs aren't a finite resource. There are no companies (as far as I'm aware, anyway) that have declared that they won't ever employ more than a set number of workers.

More population, means more demand for services and goods, which means _more_ industry. Better still if the incomers are already skilled, or wanting to learn.

Some years back, there was a large scale immigration of indians. Now, the contribution made to the country is notable - many doctors and graduates have come from this background which have inherited a very strong work ethic.

So why _are_ both our major parties announcing xenophobic (or some might even say facist) policies?
In my opinion, one of the strongest positive factors about this country is it's diversity. Some might even say it's the highest in the world. This, is surely something to include and embrace - pushing away 'those that are different' is just laying the foundations of racism.

Comments

[girl-working.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... I have varying views... While I agree diversity is good, I don't agree that people should be able to come in and get hand-outs for not doing anything, and not be removed from the country if their application is turned down, with appeals and stuff taking so long that they end up just staying anyway...

I'm not against immigration, I'm against the fact that there's so many people coming in for a free lunch, and that if they don't contribute to the country in some way, or their illegal asylum seekers, they're not asked politely to leave with that enforced...

If that makes any sense?

[sobrique.livejournal.com]

Out of interest, what _does_ entitle someone to "free handouts"?
We have a large fraction of the population either unemployed, or earning low enough to not have to be paying any tax, claiming benefits.

Shall we throw out everyone who's been on the dole for more than 90% of their working life?
What about the students?

And where else are they going to go, what are they going to do if we _do_ tell them to just 'take a hike'.

If instead, we recognised that they were arriving and _not_ forcing immigrants to dodge the system, we'd have a chance of integrating them into society, bring them up to speed on English, our legal system, etc. and then turn them into productive members of society in a relatively short time frame.

[girl-working.livejournal.com]

The problem is, with the large amounts of people immigrating, can the government afford those first intergrations? If we can't sort our own unemployed/low earners out first, do we have any right to accept more?

I'm all for people to come in, be useful and be part of the country, but I think there needs to be checks such as 'What do you expect in the UK?' and a mention that yes, they need to work, and yes they have to have checks and stuff... I'm against people thinking that they can find work unskilled very easily and I think that we wouldn't /need/ to turn them away if they knew what to expect and had a realistic idea before they applied/snuck in, so that they /could/ apply for asylum, etc and be productive...

Meh. Rambling. Sorry. :)

[sobrique.livejournal.com]

If we can't 'sort' our existing unemployed, what do a few thousand more matter? You're assuming that the employment market comprises a finite number of jobs, which it doesn't.

Do we have unemployed because there 'just aren't any jobs', because 'there isn't a job that they are prepared to do' or because they don't really want to work for a living?

In the former, well, if there's an increase in population in an area, then logically there will also be an increase in 'support service demand'. Subsidised initially by the taxpayer, true, but suddenly there will be available jobs.

If it's because there isn't jobs they want to do, then the same thing applies. There's a proportion of blue collar vs. white collar jobs and they tend to scale linearly with one another.

Or if the latter, it's a moot point.

[jorune.livejournal.com]

The UK has one of the least generous welfare systems in Europe. If you become unemployed in Germany, the state will pay you 90% of your salary for the first six months after you lose your job. France has a very well funded public sector receiving much more public money than in the UK.

By comparison, the Job seekers allowance (UK unemployment benefit) is a small amount which is means tested, taxable and runs for 6 months. After six months you don't get it. It can be stopped if you can't show that you are looking for work.

The UK is a tough option in comparison to the rest of Europe. Those people who arrive here have therefore shown determination, commitment and drive to choose the UK over the rest of Europe. These are useful personal qualities and are good traits in any citizen.

[girl-working.livejournal.com]

But people come in, maybe illegally, spending so much money to do so... And then can't afford to leave, so get illegal jobs, and aren't protecting themselves...

We do have the NHS which will treat anyone...

I'm just saying I don't think the immigrants have a realistic view of the UK, so that's why we get so many... The PR has done it's job too well...

[sobrique.livejournal.com]

But what if they didn't _have_ to get illegal jobs to subsist? If they could find a legal job, that they're capable of? They'd start earning, start paying tax, and become a member of society, rather than what's currently happening - we have an subclass, that's just one notch above slaves.

[karen2205]

Actually, the first six months worth of JSA isn't means tested, if you've paid enough NI contributions.

After that six months (or from the beginning, if you've not paid enough NICs) you move on to income based JSA.

[karen2205]

so many people coming in for a free lunch,

Actually, there aren't large numbers of people here for free lunches. Find the real statistics, not the Daily Mail fabrications.

illegal asylum seekers

What's one of those? Someone who is seeking asylum is just an asylum seeker. Until his claim is rejected he remains an aslyum seeker.

I'd like to see a much simpler immigration policy, with clear provision for economic migrants to move here and work legally without too much red tape ie. reducing the incentive for people in that position to claim aslyum. I'd also like to see asylum claims being dealt with more speedily and for those who aren't granted asylum provision made to return them to their home country.

[sobrique.livejournal.com]

Actually, for those that are unsuccessful in their asylum claim, I'd like to see a 'real' immigration route. Ok, maybe we don't recognise their right to claim asylum, but something gave them enough of a push to want to leave everything behind and move to another country.

[jorune.livejournal.com]

Hear, Hear. We want more immigration not less.

[crashbarrier.livejournal.com]

What is annoying me about this whole issue is the way the information is being manipulated by the media and polititians. Mass editorial media (i.e. the papers) seem to be on a campaign of whipping up mass Hysteria Labeling all immigrants as layabouts who leach benefits from the system draining resources from the 'legitimate' benificiaries I.e. natural born Britishers.

What I have experienced from the few refugee/immigrants that I have met are, hard working, intelligent people, often with families they wish to protect and support. Many are friendly and look forward to contributing to this country which has offered them a home and in some cases protection from persecution.

The 'They're taking our jobs excuse sucks.. because the jobs these people are getting are little more than grunt work. They will take anything and work for not-much. so if anything they are being majorly exploited by us. Then vilified for taking jobs that British people think are too low paid or too menial for them. God forbid an immigrant takes a job picking potatoes there by stopping some know nothing chav/townie from getting the job he didn't try for anyway:O.

I do think that maybe it not the immigrants that are the let down but a benefits sytem that allows illegal immigrants to 'sponge money off the system'. But as far as i'm aware Lawful immigrants do have right according to our law. And they should be able to exercise those rights as does any other Natural Born member of this nation.

[malal.livejournal.com]

Bah. The Cynic in me feels that it's just a smokescreen put up to divert people's attention from more important issues. Or a weapon created to wield against the other parties, either works...

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Sure it is. Tried and tested tactic.

"Y'know all those problems with the country? The graffiti, the rude kids and failing schools, the drugs, the fact you haven't got that £30K-a-year job you always felt you deserved, the lack of morals, decency and proper old-school religion? Well, it's all their fault. Vote for us and we'll make sure the UK stops letting 'em in."

It's always easier to convince someone that these problems are someone else's fault than it is to convince them that they might just need to stop sitting on their arse and help to fix them...

Einstein was an asylum seeker

[badriya.livejournal.com]

Programme on radio four quoted complaints about immigrants and refugees made through the ages. Samuel Pepys complained they speak poor or no English and smell and bring in diseases. Complaints about the Hugeonots said they are poor, ragged clothes and come to take our jobs and housing.

A large percentage of asylum seekers who are initially refused leave to stay are found on appeal to have been wrongly refused.

I declare an interest as, like Mr Howard, my parents were asylum seekers. They were among the lucky ones. Other members of my family, not so lucky, died in Europe in the early 1940s.

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

Politicians are simply going for the thing that they think will get them the most votes. Nobody seems to stand for election in order to change things in the way they see is better any more, merely so as to get power, and frankly I think this is a perfectly good reason to send both front benches to another country and start afresh. (But who'd have 'em?)